The endless Dutch debate and polder about corona measures means that citizens are less compliant with the rules. So says Andreas Voss, professor of infection prevention and member of the Outbreak Management Team (OMT).
“We keep on discussing this. I think that we can really destroy the support for the corona policy in the Netherlands. We must stop sowing doubts, ”says Voss in an interview with this site, about the big differences between the Dutch and German contamination figures. In the Netherlands, a proportion of seven to eight times more people are currently infected with corona than their eastern neighbors.
Take Tuesday: Germany (83 million inhabitants) had more than 2000 infections on that day, the Netherlands (17 million inhabitants) about 3000. In North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), a federal state that matches our country in terms of population and population density almost perfectly. compare, there were 538 infections on Tuesday. The total number of deaths in NRW since February: 1872. In the Netherlands: 6393.
More law-abiding
According to Voss, this is partly because Germans stick to the basic rules better. On the one hand because they are naturally more law-abiding than the Dutch. But Voss, who was born and raised in Germany, is not only a professor at the Radboud University in Nijmegen, but also a microbiologist at the Canisius Wilhelmina Hospital in the same city, also points to the ‘much more extreme’ social debate in the Netherlands, with everyone sitting at talk show tables and even is allowed to have his or her say about corona policy at the cabinet.
For example, both the cabinet and the Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema sought advice on the subject of masks from the Red Team, a non-governmental group of independent experts. Prime Minister Mark Rutte called the Red Team in the latest corona press conference of the cabinet “a group of people who keep us on our toes”.
“With that he gives them status, and you create a kind of competitive advice model. In my view, that does not help to create support among the public, ”says Voss, who himself is a member of the OMT, the official scientific advisory body of the government.
It can no longer be denied: Germany is better at fighting the corona virus than the Netherlands. With roughly the same package of measures – although the Germans already opted for the mouth mask months ago – our eastern neighbors are achieving much better results.
The Germans are better at large-scale testing. They have been conducting extensive source and contact research since the outbreak of the pandemic, without many capacity problems. They have four times as many ic-beds as we do. And, that is of course the most important: the daily number of infections and deaths is structurally (much) lower than in the Netherlands.
Andreas Voss is German by birth, professor of Infection Prevention at Radboud University in Nijmegen and a member of the OMT. So he knows the situation well in both countries.
They are really starting to stand out now, Mr Voss, those big differences.
“Yes, you cannot escape that. Germany is doing very well structurally. I see two important factors for this. First: the testing capacity. In Germany you have bulk laboratories that specialize in processing large numbers of tests. The Netherlands has very good labs that can deliver high-quality work very quickly. But not on that large scale. A pandemic is really a different game. A number of German laboratories are so large that they could have independently added the entire Dutch test demand. That’s the scale you’re talking about. With their large turnover, these labs are of course also attractive for suppliers of materials. ”
What’s the second?
“The second one, which I think is more important at the moment, is the discipline of people. In Germany you also have groups like Virus Truth, there are also many opinions. But more than in the Netherlands there is enormous discipline in adhering to national policy. If I go to refuel across the border and I don’t put on my face mask when paying, other customers will point this out to me. A shopkeeper will return me. In Germany you also hear far fewer stories of partying youth, or of family celebrations that lead to a lot of infections. Of course they are there, but apparently much less in proportion. ”
How did that happen?
“To begin with, there is a cultural difference. If you tell a German to jump, he will ask you, how high? A Dutch person asks: why? If there is a plexiglass screen in front of the reception in a hotel and customers also have to wear a face mask, then a German will do it. A Dutch person will say: why do I have to stand in front of a glass wall with a mouth mask? And then he debates which of the two barriers should be removed. ”
The corona rules are pretty much the same in the Netherlands and Germany.
“I also think that nothing is wrong with Dutch policy. But the social debate is much more extreme here. The country is small and well-connected, so discussions quickly take place at the national level. In addition, you have a lot of opinion makers, and the media eat it. Whether it’s Maurice de Hond, or the Red Team (a club of independent experts not affiliated with the government, ed.), Or the influencers with #ikdoenietmeer, you name it. They sit at all talk show tables, are quoted everywhere. And then Prime Minister Mark Rutte also goes so far as to explicitly appoint the Red Team during the last press conference, giving them status. This creates a kind of competitive advice model. In my view, that does not help to create support among citizens. ”
Why not?
“It only ensures that people have massive arguments against everything. And that they always feel supported by one of the parties at the table in a talk show, or an opinion maker in the social media. Here we continue to discuss. I think that we can really destroy the support for the corona policy in the Netherlands. What we need is one clear direction and approach. We must stop sowing doubts. ”
Can’t you see this happening in Germany?
“There are also big protests there, and opinions are also exchanged there. But the government promotes one point of view, without leaving much leeway. Germans are the same: it is A or B, there is much less gray area. Here it is all a bit less directive. I also participate in that myself. I also do my work here differently than I used to do in Germany. ”
Amsterdam mayor Halsema said she consulted the Red Team for mouth masks advice. Yesterday, members of the team came to a hearing in the House of Representatives. How does that feel as an OMT member?
“First of all, I think there are very smart people in that Red Team. Feedback to avoid getting tunnel vision is important. But it doesn’t help if such a team continues to form an opinion through the media and other channels and even becomes a kind of second advisory body. Regardless of the quality of the advice, the situation becomes extremely unclear to everyone. People shop for the advice that suits them best. As OMT, we discuss intensively with each other, but then issue one advice to the government. Of course there are also members who have a different viewpoint on certain subjects. But as an OMT member you are not going to announce that extensively in the media. I think that is completely justified, otherwise you will immediately get a discussion about an advice. Many, if not all of the points of view that are now being aired by others in the media, have also passed through the OMT. Sometimes it doesn’t feel good not to be able to say anything about it, while other people get a big stage. Now the advice that other clubs give seem completely new, and not discussed in the OMT. But that is of course not the case. ”
In this way we will not become a corona champion, but Germany will?
“The Netherlands has not done very badly. And you have to be careful not to compare apples with pears. It is only in 2022, when the pandemic is hopefully over, that you can really assess how countries have performed. Then you can assess how large the excess mortality has been, how the economy has been affected and what the long-term impact of the crisis is. But let’s put it this way: Germany has a good chance. ”